Curse

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 06, 2010, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Ether Renewal is the Shadow Form of Elementalists: Overpowered.

Providing insane protection and heals, it's the must have spell for PvE.

Looking at previous nerfs, Ursan, Shadowform and 600 monks should Ether Renewal be nerfed?

Ursan was overpowered, required almost no skill to play, requires a high title level and warriors/paragons were the Ursan of choice for their higher armor levels. Roll face on keyboard and win.
This nerf was a no brainer, no Ursan, no team. End of story.

Shadowform was a obvious to nerf, Assassins + Shadowform = $$$. People preferred to have Assassins for tanks even though if there was no tank-n-spank team involved. UW always had UWSC after it. 10 minute elite area was way to fast.

600 monks, same deal, running dungeons for people equals easy cash. If you shouted, LFG CoF HM people would react, lolwut?! Pay 2k n00b for a run.

The next target of over powered skills nerfed is Ether Renewal, keeping a team in near god mode while increasing damage of the physicals.

Cons-
Out of this world energy and healing, this one doesn't need to be explained.
Spamming of the most costly powerful monk spells with no draw back, Infuse Health was meant for PvP for anti-spikes, fastest casting with no recharge was built for PvP anti-spiking. The draw back is it cost half health. Protective Bond has a insanely powerful protection with a draw back that makes it completely unusable.
Easily maintain ER, even with some enchantment denial. Just like shadow form this can only get removed if either you screwed up or your team does.

Pros-
Not a monk replacer, ER's can't bring hex, condition removal, res without a strong sacrifice of power. If an ER infusers energy hits 0 because ER was stripped, GG, the team is stuck without heals for about 15 seconds. ER infusers might have more healing power, but the monks has more spell diversity.
Not invincible, Ether Renewal is the ER infusers glass key for success. That spell dies = your team dies, simple as that.
Elementalists useful, if ER was nerfed the only option in HM for a useful elementalist would be support. Reducing a class usefulness by end game would suck. More options the better.

Why is this important?
Guild Wars 2 being a year or two away it's obviously on the to-do list. Looking at previous game changing nerfs, plus ER infuse popularity rising (Playing ER infuse a year ago, I was laughed at each time I joined a group "infuse spam, lolwutwtfomfgrolfbqq") it's going to be on the problem radar some day.

As a community-
People hated Ursan for being overpowered, people hated Shadowform for being overpowered, people hated 600 monks for being overpowered, do people hate Ether Renewal?

Freeze_XJ · Jul 06, 2010, 05:57 AM // 05:57

I for one don't mind keeping ER. They're good red-bar-up guys, but if anything happens, they're in big trouble. Enchant removal happens, one well-placed Chilblains means your healing powers go down when you need them most. Yes, it heals and gives a truckload of energy, but only to yourself, so you have to keep infusing the team, spam heal party (long cast), and... well, you're still suffering from the other problems, like interrupts, shame, backfire, and diversion. Those are less likely to annoy you in PvE, but PvE is overpowered anyway. (most eles still run a pure nuking build, so it's not like everyone realizes the power of ER)

X Dr Pepper X · Jul 06, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

You mean I can't normally infuse half my health into a person and actually GAIN health? And heal party is so costly it can't be spammed normally?

Nerf it so it still has functionality, but isn't absolutely ridiculous.

Off topic, nerf DWG by adding 1s cast, 10e, 20 sec recharge. Thank you very much.

/signed.

Abedeus · Jul 06, 2010, 06:22 AM // 06:22

You kill ER, you kill probably the only good Elementalist build for HM. I think every other mage class has armor-ignoring damage, Elementalist doesn't really have viable options.

Del · Jul 06, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Pretty strong, and although i don't actually give a shit, i do think it's lame that eles can outheal monks, but hey, they have to be useful somehow right?

nologic · Jul 06, 2010, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You kill ER, you kill probably the only good Elementalist build for HM. I think every other mage class has armor-ignoring damage, Elementalist doesn't really have viable options.

Barely seen any1 using ER for HM actually i dont run it on my ele but hence i couldnt care less. I never bothered with that skill so doesnt matter how OP it is atm i just wanna see SF nerfed more then and dwg.

People do SC so much so it will be nothing left of value except the ectos.

Invertation · Jul 06, 2010, 07:10 AM // 07:10

It's a niche roll, and I should think hardly suiting of a nerf. ER is yet another option in build versatility that takes skills that otherwise fail to see use, and gives them purpose.
That -energy bit on Prot Bond makes it the secondary option for monks, with a small range of builds that can properly utilize it's benefits. ER makes it more practical and viable. In more or less the same way, Infuse is given more purpose in PvE, with more lasting and practical use.
It's just another versatility enhancement. As far as ER goes, it certainly can't solo UW or DoA. Instead, it is a team oriented skill that functions only as well as the team's overall composition does.

UnChosen · Jul 06, 2010, 07:41 AM // 07:41

There's no way I would support this.

At least until Anet reads the "Let's Fix Ele" thread in the class specific forum and do something about the horrendous damage they get in HM.

Then they can delete ER if they want.

Andemius · Jul 06, 2010, 09:31 AM // 09:31

I don't think there' much wrong with it. Sure it might be in some of the UWSC builds, and does provide invincibility to en extent, but unless they're organised these teams usually fail.

Back onto ER itself, it's no-where near as strong as SF and 600/smite was, and since it has no spell immunity, you could only use it against physicals.

I think it gives eles a nice was to provide prots and orders, otherwise and I just revert to Discord Team.

Edit@ and I didn't hate 600, it wasn't even close to the strength of SF

Luminarus · Jul 06, 2010, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Im indifferent.

damkel · Jul 06, 2010, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invertation

It's a niche roll, and I should think hardly suiting of a nerf. ..

Well said. A very gimmicky build. Not really threatening.

snowman relic · Jul 06, 2010, 11:07 AM // 11:07

To origional poster it seems to me like your Q.Qing because back when you used it it was hated but now its a widely used build i personally dont own an ele with that build but i never mind when in hardmode i have an ele with a ER build because it actually works well and sorry but we nerf enough how about anet just gives everyone who wants nerfs skills that do absolutly nothing so that it fits said persons agenda's

aspi · Jul 06, 2010, 11:21 AM // 11:21

I didn't even mind the 600 monk to be honest. Don't care much for the ER skill either.

Ursan and yes the skill that never should have been created shadowform I agree with.

zelgadissan · Jul 06, 2010, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Ether Renewal is retardedly overpowered.

However, so is pretty much any skill that has a PvE/PvP split.

bhavv · Jul 06, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

No way should it be nerfed.

Unlike Ursan / 600 / Shadow Form, ER is ***NOT*** invincible. Enchant removal single handedly completely destroys the entire build, and the skills that the build uses are hardy ever used normally (No monk ever takes Shield Guardian, Convert Hexes, Extiguish, or Infuse in PVE, if they do then theyre doing something very wrong).

Other classes have completely overpowered builds in PVE as well - Necros (go go N/Rts and Sabway), Mesmers (with the recent oodles of buffs), Monks (UA + HB are extremely powerful in PVE), and ellys can hit foes in HM for maybe around 6-19 damage with their most powerful non armor ignoring skills.

Alicendre · Jul 06, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

All builds that were nerfed in PvE were because they affected the economy, not because they were too powerful, isn't it?

So in that regard, ER doesn't really affect the economy. It's a niche build, you can't farm or do SC with it.
That said, if other aspects of the Ele were buffed, I wouldn't mind an ER nerf.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 06, 2010, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Ether Renewal isn't the Elementalist's Shadow Form. It's their "Save Yourselves!". The Renewal Infuser build seems very similar to the Imbagon from my perspective. Nerf the key skills in either build to remove it from its pedestal of power, and what do you have to replace it?

I would, of course, support a nerf of either Ether Renewal and "SY!", but those can't be standalone changes. Something else has to be done somewhere else to keep the Elementalist or Paragon from being totally overlooked in HM PvE.

MaxMurderMan · Jul 06, 2010, 01:10 PM // 13:10

It promotes team play not soloing, it's not really shadow form or a 600 monk so whats the problem?

Jk Arrow · Jul 06, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I don't think it's close to SF or 600. There is only one or two farm builds I know of with ER as the elite. And those are not at all as popular or efficient as any number of other farm builds.

It is tied to the Ele primary so other classes can't use it. Unlike other previously mentioned nerfed skills. I don't see this as good or bad but it will probably cause the non-eles to QQ and the eles to say leave it be.

It provides Ele's something to do in end game PvE. It also allows other classes to be played in end game areas so anything that supports balanced group play is fine in my opinion.

Essence Snow · Jul 06, 2010, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Wait SF got nerfed? I guess I should tell all the SCers in Vloxx......

ER...not really a big issue...things still take a while and require effort. Plus, like others have said...take away ER and Eles are only left with OF and possibly(coordianted) SF for HM